Input lag

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[FnG] Mez
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Input lag

Postby [FnG] Mez » Mon Jun 14, 2010 2:49 pm

For twitchy FPS players here, I just read a year-old decent article on input lag, at http://www.anandtech.com/show/2803. The diagrams on the last page give a good visualization of where there may be room for improvement with your system.

:hellracer:

Given we all get the best CPU/GPU we can stretch to, then it's worth:

  • using a USB mouse capable of 500Hz (2ms).
  • using a CRT at >=85Hz, or an LCD with a response time <2ms (I wish they sold LCDs with a refresh rate of 120Hz).
  • turning off VSync (for instance, UT2004 lets you instead specify MaxClientFrameRate=90 & OverrideDesktopRefreshRate=True, for online only).
But ultimately skills and age are what defeats me! :bedrime:

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[FnG] RampantBunny
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Re: Input lag

Postby [FnG] RampantBunny » Mon Jun 14, 2010 8:37 pm

[FnG] Mez wrote:...:hellracer:

Given we all get the best CPU/GPU we can stretch to, then it's worth:

[*]using a CRT at >=85Hz, or an LCD with a response time <2ms (I wish they sold LCDs with a refresh rate of 120Hz).
:bedrime:


I know acer sells a 120 mhz LCD monitor :) no doubt soon more companies will follow.
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[FnG] LcNessie
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Re: Input lag

Postby [FnG] LcNessie » Mon Jun 14, 2010 9:14 pm

120Hz panels will increase in popularity as 3D applications become more prevalent. Right now, you can turn any DirectX9 or later game into a 3D game with special drivers akin to iZ3D.

Be prepared to tune down the details, though. The rendering of the scene in 3D also requires about 3 times the processing power from the vid-card. If you accept these penalties and if you can tolerate those silly red/blue glasses, 3D is yours right now, even on 60Hz screens. If you buy a 120Hz screen with 3D emitter, you can use shutter-glasses. You take a penalty on brightness, but usually the screens can compensate for that. Color is unaffected by these screens.

And only now I remember that this thread isn't about 3D in the first place...

Nevermind... :crazy:
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aximon
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Re: Input lag

Postby aximon » Mon Jun 14, 2010 9:40 pm

Nice find. I especially recommend the "over clocking" of your mouse. Old mice like my MX518 are easily capable of 500Hz instead of 125Hz.
Another thing you could try in order to improve your aim is to disable all mouse accelerations in Windows & UT.
Also, changing your Netspeed might make the game running smoother. For example, for whatever reason, whenever I enter the FnG Server, my UT sets the Netspeed to 5500 and I have to manually correct it. :plane:
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Re: Input lag

Postby [FnG] Hanno » Tue Jun 15, 2010 11:10 am

[FnG] Mez wrote:But ultimately skills and age are what defeats me! :bedrime:



Hehe just imagine how its going to be in another 40 -50 years time
by the time we've remembered what weapon we wanted to switch to we are going to have been wumped
by ninja 10 year olds.

Saying that I did get some satisfaction from duffing in some 10 year olds in BF heroes last night.
My FPS reflexes arent totally shot even with the RSI kicking in ;-)
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Re: Input lag

Postby [FnG] Mez » Tue Jun 15, 2010 3:27 pm

[FnG] LcNessie wrote:120 Hz panels for 3D


You're right - I've seen that you can get 120hz LCDs for 3D (60Hz left + 60Hz right) but can you still use them at 120Hz when in a "normal" mode? The video card can output that, and Windows DirectX can be overridden with a quick registry tweak.

aximon wrote:Also, changing your Netspeed might make the game running smoother.


Right, I also noticed that the FnG server has a netspeed of 5500, but most other servers have a default of 10000 and I assumed the provider has some technical or cost reason for this. So do you reduce it further with "netspeed NNNN", when each map loads? Living nearer to the server (Germany?) probably helps too ;)

[FnG] Hanno wrote:Hehe just imagine how its going to be in another 40 -50 years time


I'll be in a box by then, mate. But if that old grandad [FnG]Bufty can still manage every night at his age (!) there's always hope, but RSI is definitely the thing to avoid - there's no cure, only prevention. Which is why for the past 15 years I've been using the mouse with my left hand, so I reduce the chance of RSI in my natural preferred right hand.

Mind you, that's probably another reason why I can't aim as accurately as the other euro guys...d'oh! :Beye:

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Re: Input lag

Postby [FnG] Hanno » Tue Jun 15, 2010 3:31 pm

RH mouse is so in grained in me after nearly 20 years!!! that I have no chance of changing now.
So unless they get a direct brain interface, I just have to bear the pain and take regular breaks combined with a whiskey/chocolate painkiller plan.
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Re: Input lag

Postby [FnG] Bawsy » Tue Jun 15, 2010 6:23 pm

aximon wrote:Nice find. I especially recommend the "over clocking" of your mouse. Old mice like my MX518 are easily capable of 500Hz instead of 125Hz.
Another thing you could try in order to improve your aim is to disable all mouse accelerations in Windows & UT.
Also, changing your Netspeed might make the game running smoother. For example, for whatever reason, whenever I enter the FnG Server, my UT sets the Netspeed to 5500 and I have to manually correct it. :plane:


If only we could all have your 20 ping as well ;)

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Re: Input lag

Postby [FnG] Bawsy » Tue Jun 15, 2010 6:25 pm

[FnG] Mez wrote:Which is why for the past 15 years I've been using the mouse with my left hand, so I reduce the chance of RSI in my natural preferred right hand.


I think I speak for everyone when I say.......WTF? :shock:

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[FnG] James
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Re: Input lag

Postby [FnG] James » Tue Jun 15, 2010 6:25 pm

[FnG] Hanno wrote:RH mouse is so in grained in me after nearly 20 years!!! that I have no chance of changing now.
So unless they get a direct brain interface, I just have to bear the pain and take regular breaks combined with a whiskey/chocolate painkiller plan.

Don't give up on the controller/gamepad style of play... it takes about a month to get used to, but no chance of RSI from the keyboard/mouse combination. :thumbup:

And once you master it, you play the same or better than before.
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Re: Input lag

Postby [FnG] Ro3L » Tue Jun 15, 2010 7:18 pm

[FnG] James wrote:And once you master it, you play the same or better than before.


Hanno doesnt need to play any better :rolleyes:

I'll just stick with my el cheapo mouse(logitech RX300) and laptop :) works good enoug for me :thumbup:
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Re: Input lag

Postby aximon » Tue Jun 15, 2010 11:45 pm

[FnG] Mez wrote: Right, I also noticed that the FnG server has a netspeed of 5500, but most other servers have a default of 10000 and I assumed the provider has some technical or cost reason for this. So do you reduce it further with "netspeed NNNN", when each map loads?

I prefer a netspeed of 15000. You need at least 10001 to unlock the fps cap and 15000 feels even better to me.
Ps. My CRT Monitor probably uses as much power as the complete PC but it’s totally worth it ;)

[FnG] Bawsy wrote: If only we could all have your 20 ping as well ;)

You + LG = Scary Stuff

The low ping is the icing on the cake :)

You could enable UTcomp + Netcode to nullify the ping advantage but that would mainly benefit the hitscan players anyway.

And, like I said before, the high tickrate is great for hitscan weapons. Where, on the other hand, it doesn’t make much of a difference for Rocket Scientists & Flak Monkeys ^^
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Re: Input lag

Postby [FnG] Mez » Wed Jun 16, 2010 12:31 am

[FnG] Bawsy wrote:I think I speak for everyone when I say.......WTF? :shock:


Heh - it's not too bad after all those years of coding and gaming. And now both my hands have only half-strength tendonitis - great!

(BTW Hanno, try bathing your hands/wrists in hot water for 30 seconds, before and after a gaming session - it helps a bit with the RSI, because it gets the blood moving, particularly over winter)

aximon wrote:I prefer a netspeed of 15000. You need at least 10001 to unlock the fps cap and 15000 feels even better to me.
Ps. My CRT Monitor probably uses as much power as the complete PC but it’s totally worth it ;)


I might try experimenting with that again, but couldn't tell much difference. Your 24ms ping is what us mere mortals can only dream of. :cry:

Also, is there any point having a frame rate above 90, because the server max tick rate is 90 ?

My LCD can only manage 75Hz anyway - I thought you might have a CRT ;)

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Re: Input lag

Postby [FnG] Hanno » Wed Jun 16, 2010 2:28 pm

[FnG] Ro3L wrote:
[FnG] James wrote:And once you master it, you play the same or better than before.


Hanno doesnt need to play any better as its good for Rollys score :rolleyes:



Mhmmhph. I think it would be easier to master playing mouse in left.

And Mez I tried the hotwater on my wrists whilst playing, but my mouse is now making funny noises ;-)
Did I get it wrong :rockin: Next time its bad I'll try it. If I keep my play sessions to les than an
hour and its not repeatedly hitting the left mouse button (UT2004 :-( ) I can live with it at the moment.
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Re: Input lag

Postby [FnG] James » Wed Jun 16, 2010 6:58 pm

[FnG] Hanno wrote:
[FnG] Ro3L wrote:
[FnG] James wrote:And once you master it, you play the same or better than before.


Hanno doesnt need to play any better as its good for Rollys score :rolleyes:



Mhmmhph. I think it would be easier to master playing mouse in left.

Easier perhaps, but doesn't really solve the underlying issue.

If you're really looking for solutions, there are accupressure points in the wrist as part of Chinese Medicine, that can reduce and over time eliminate the pain and stiffness of RSI... I can show you some techniques if you're interested.
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