Breaking my promise — Wisconsin legislative crisis

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[FnG] Da Kril
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Re: Breaking my promise — Wisconsin legislative crisis

Postby [FnG] Da Kril » Thu Mar 10, 2011 7:37 am

My sympathies, empathy and condolences as well, to both Torgo and any other Wisconsin FnGers.
(you out there, Nihilist?)

Oh, and to U.S. citizens, as well — this sets a horrible precedent. :(

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—David Mamet, Glengarry Glen Ross


Bummed here in Texas, hoping for massive strikes from teachers (especially)
and other Wisconsin government workers.
--kril sad-- :|

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Re: Breaking my promise — Wisconsin legislative crisis

Postby [FnG] Torgo 3000 » Thu Mar 10, 2011 7:45 am

Yes, completely illegal hearing & vote. They claim to have used a special meeting law, but even a non-lawyer like me can read that law and see by page 3 that it's not applicable. One side in this struggle has no respect for rule of law. Surprise, surprise.

Sorry to disappoint, but Cheeseheads don't riot. If there are riots, you'll know Walker & Koch planted some of their "troublemakers" after all. Since all the police are on our side, I don't think they'd be able to get away with that, though, so expect no riots.

But there are talks of general strike. Nationwide walkouts are being organized for 2pm Friday. Recall efforts of all eligible GOP senators are taking off like a wild prairie fire. As one of my favorite writers (Dave Zirin) just wrote tonight, "Gov. Scott Walker Puts Out Fire With Gasoline." Big days coming up.

Linkies:
Facebook page for nationwide student walkout
Video of the special meeting to ramrod the new bill
Last edited by [FnG] Torgo 3000 on Thu Mar 10, 2011 7:49 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Added teh linkies.
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Re: Breaking my promise — Wisconsin legislative crisis

Postby [FnG] Torgo 3000 » Thu Mar 10, 2011 8:04 am

And - I kid you not - word just came out from the state Assembly that the bill voted on in the above video had not even been drafted before that vote. That explains why Peter Barca, the lone dem at the table (the video was of a joint special session - all the Fab 14 senators are still out of state) was not shown a copy of the bill at the meeting. Wow, this gets crazier and crazier.

Scott Gadafi? Muamar Walker?

OK, going to try to wind down now.

:gripe:
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Re: Breaking my promise — Wisconsin legislative crisis

Postby [FnG] Da Kril » Thu Mar 10, 2011 8:29 am

[FnG] Torgoo 3000 wrote:But there are talks of general strike.
Bring it! :thumbup: :yahoo:
Some things to feel encouraged about, anyway.

[FnG] Trogmo 3000 wrote:As one of my favorite writers (Dave Zirin) just wrote tonight, "Gov. Scott Walker Puts Out Fire With Gasoline."
Er, don't you mean "Dave Bowie"?

* runs away *

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Re: Breaking my promise — Wisconsin legislative crisis

Postby [FDG]Sundae » Thu Mar 10, 2011 3:57 pm

I can deal with massive strikes too. Shut down the whole state.

Peaceful protests only get you recognized. If nobody cares about what you're protesting once they see you, you have to ramp it up and make them care.

The French, for all the jokes we like to make about them, have worked this out very well. Need to strike? Air France terminals blockaded, ports shut down, highways blocked, major train arteries blocked. They get their point across that they are in charge, and not some a$$hat who fooled the electorate for long enough to get his foot in the door.

The USA needs to realize that as well. I'm too far away to join in on the physical striking, but I'll continue to send as many pizza orders to Ians as I can.

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Re: Breaking my promise — Wisconsin legislative crisis

Postby [FnG] Hanno » Thu Mar 10, 2011 4:19 pm

Peaceful protests might get ignored, but riotious protests can tip public opinion the other way.
Got to remember that agressive protesting can attract people who are more interested in smashing/looting
stuff and getting away with it rather than any political point being made.
If it was the policticos houses getting smashed that would be one thing ... but when
riots happen it harms and can finish off small business'es who just happen to be in the wrong place.
Large business's can weather the storms.

The recent student protests( read riots) in London over student fees did absolutely no good for the students.
Half the people interviewed didnt understand what they were protesting about properly and
another quarter were just there for a day off lectures (or bunking off school for the under 16s)
The damage done and policing needed amounted to millions which could have been spent in much better places.
It was plain before hand that no changes or concessions to the student over these fee's were going to be made.

Whilst I can agree in theory that you have to stand up to your rights. You have be careful
a) to the pick the right fight and b) watch out for what you unleash
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Anyone who believes they know what's going on is dangerous and should be avoided at all cost.

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Re: Breaking my promise — Wisconsin legislative crisis

Postby [FDG]Sundae » Thu Mar 10, 2011 4:30 pm

Wisconsin is the first of six states who have laws up for making collective bargaining / striking illegal. Republican representatives in at least two of the other states have outright said to the media that they're waiting to see the outcome of Wisconsin.

Meanwhile, child labor laws were just completely repealed in Missouri. It happened back in February with hardly a peep from anyone. No maximum hours, shifts, no ban on dangerous jobs, no ban on work during school hours, and the bill specifically eliminated all power to the Labor Department to even ask if an employer hires children. It eliminated the need for child work permits, and allows children of any age to be employed instead of the usual "14+ if they have a permit".

I think it's about time we stopped picking our fights and started actually fighting. It's been all of three months into the new term, and we've rolled back labor laws almost 100 years in several states. Precedents are dangerous things, and I'm having trouble thinking of more important battles to fight right now.

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Re: Breaking my promise — Wisconsin legislative crisis

Postby [FDG]Sundae » Thu Mar 10, 2011 4:33 pm

Oh - side question...

I know that with "at will" employment, technically everything is legal for an employer, but beyond that: Is it legal for an employer to ban political activism for their employees? I got an e-mail this morning "reminding all employees that political activities in excess of donations are in violation of our employment contract." Pretty sure that's not legal.

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Re: Breaking my promise — Wisconsin legislative crisis

Postby [FDG]Sundae » Thu Mar 10, 2011 7:15 pm

In case anyone else has missed it, the Assembly room has been locked, and they're refusing to let democrat representatives in for an ongoing vote.

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Re: Breaking my promise — Wisconsin legislative crisis

Postby [FnG] Torgo 3000 » Thu Mar 10, 2011 10:45 pm

[FDG]Sundae wrote:In case anyone else has missed it, the Assembly room has been locked, and they're refusing to let democrat representatives in for an ongoing vote.


They were eventually let in. Woo hoo! So much democracy.

I want to clarify the difference between riots and civil disobedience. Sundae, you described the latter, and sticking to that tactic preserves the moral high ground. Rioting produces a similar effect to cussing in polite company: It gives people an excuse to completely disregard everything else you've said. Besides, there are lots of kids & elderly around the demonstrations. The moral high ground is an essential asset. The Walkerites and other Koch-heads are beyond shame, but they are losing support the more light shines on them - keep the light shining (at least in this situation), and we win.

I'm preaching to the choir. Sorry. But thanks for the pizza!

Pete Seeger: "Take it easy, but take it."
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Re: Breaking my promise — Wisconsin legislative crisis

Postby [FnG] Torgo 3000 » Fri Mar 11, 2011 4:42 am

[FDG]Sundae wrote:Oh - side question...

I know that with "at will" employment, technically everything is legal for an employer, but beyond that: Is it legal for an employer to ban political activism for their employees? I got an e-mail this morning "reminding all employees that political activities in excess of donations are in violation of our employment contract." Pretty sure that's not legal.


About this - it's dubious. About a decade ago, a company (also a Wisconsin company) started firing all the employees who smoked, even those who smoked on their own time. Say what you will about smoking - it's not illegal. That case went to the US Supreme Court (though there was also a complication in that the workplace in question exposed employees to lead). The court found that you could not fire employees who smoked in the off hours.

So, if you have the money to fight it all the way up, maybe you'd be OK. Or maybe there's a precedent of which I'm just not aware. Don't ask me. I em spupit.
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Re: Breaking my promise — Wisconsin legislative crisis

Postby [FDG]Sundae » Fri Mar 11, 2011 7:14 pm

Edit: Deleted. It's a bad bill, but let's stick with WIsconsin here.

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Re: Breaking my promise — Wisconsin legislative crisis

Postby [FnG] Torgo 3000 » Sat Mar 12, 2011 6:14 am

Yeah, there's a lot going on all over now. Many bad bills are many bad. I didn't see what your last post was originally about, but have you heard about the provision in the budget bill in Michigan which allows the governor to disband (or unincorporate, rather, sort of like being put in receivership) local governments and name corporate administrators in their place? Wow. If that ain't banana republic, I don't know what is.

Meanwhile, it's not over in Wisconsin. Millions have woken up, and at the very least, there will be some recalls in a few months. My state senator's going down hard. People are lining up to sign her recall petition. (She's a republican in a swing district who won her seat 2.5 years ago in a very tight race, and after this I wonder if we'll ever send another republican in my lifetime.) Hopefully with a new senate, we can stop the bleeding soon, before the next 2-year budget can be finalized, because THAT puppy is going to cause pain. A lot of public schools simply won't be able to operate. We'll have unschooled kids roaming the streets, probably becoming WoW gold farmers. Or moving to Missouri to work for the Koch bros.

There is still talk of general strike, but don't expect it in the next few weeks - it will be well-planned and coordinated. And meanwhile, the demonstrations continue. We're carpooling into Madtown tomorrow with another family from our school (private, ironically). One of the rallies should be photogenic, as 200 family farmers will drive their tractors around Capitol Square (50 at a time, since there just isn't room for 200). Some organizers are planning for 250,000 people - easily more than the population of Madison, and the biggest rally of the ordeal so far. Don't stick a fork in Wisconsin yet.

I'll have a slice of pizza and yell "THANK YOU SUNDAE!" real loud tomorrow. And then I'll owe you one.
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Re: Breaking my promise — Wisconsin legislative crisis

Postby [FDG]Sundae » Sat Mar 12, 2011 2:18 pm

My post was actually about the Michigan EMF bill. :lol:

However, I think it should be the other way around. The next time I have a slice of pizza, I need to yell THANK YOU TORGO. It's easy to buy someone a pizza. It's much harder to go out and protest your state government's policies.

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Re: Breaking my promise — Wisconsin legislative crisis

Postby [FnG] Torgo 3000 » Thu Mar 31, 2011 4:48 am

For the record, I didn't get any pizza - never found where Ian's was handing it out. I had an AFL-CIO bratwurst, though, and made an appropriate donation for the 4 my family ate.

Our status: I've been out for a few days in the intervening weekends gathering signatures for the recall effort to remove our state senator. Wisconsin has 33 senators, and 8 GOP senators are eligible for recall. If 3 of those recall efforts work, then we can at last stop the bleeding in Wisconsin. It looks very, very promising. The recall ballots should all occur in the June-July timeframe. We already have all 8 of them running to Washington DC to beg money from their billionaire patrons. They are afraid: very afraid.

But alas, the polling data shows that my state senator will probably not lose her recall election. As I live in a fairly affluent district, most of my neighbors value the status quo over democracy. But, we should at least be able to force the recall vote. It's interesting though - as I go door to door, every single person of color signs the petition; depending on the neighborhood, sometimes only 1 in 5 caucasians sign. Sort of like we're back in the 1950's. One african-american lady I talked to, just off her 3rd-shift nursing job, told me (as she signed) that is was all futile. They'll eventually get whatever they want, and we'll all be destitute. I said that, well, we have to try. But I'm afraid she's correct.

Meanwhile, the fight seems to be spreading everywhere. This is only a gaming discussion forum, but let it be known here that I was on the people's side. Solidarity forever, folks.
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