Torture Porn *Not

[[FnG] Hanno]

Theres been a bit of public debate in the UK recently over restricting access to Porn etc on the web.
Eg Gov wants to put laws that it is auto-blocked at provider unless you opt in to protect the childen.

* Mauds voice - think about the children - think about the children *

Although I find some of the hmm 'material' out there pretty objectionable for a number of reasons,
I am pretty much against laws such as this which interfere with my right to look at pictures of naked women
freedom of expression/speech. I could go with laws which ban violent or degrading porny stuff (but how do you define,
where do you draw the line?) but the whole no sex thing is a joke. Especially when you consider you can
switch the telly on at 9pm and be presented with people having their throats slashed open in technicolour or other
forms of televised and film violence and mutilation.

I don't even want to put parental controls on our computers to protect Erin, (although google safe search IS on)
because I think educating a child to the fact the world is a wierd place and you have to beware what you click on
on the internet, is more important. Plus I think parental supervision is needed as well.
But anyway what parental control is ever going to be able to stop a 14 year old boy get his hands on what he wants....
DO NOT give children private access to computers (eg not in their Bedrooms)

Anyway back to the point, this morning I came into work and found a load of obscene torture porn on my desktop,
(At least thats what I thought it was when I first looked). Erin (who is now had been playing here
(we run a small family business - I make Erin do the accounts in the holidays for practice) and had left some
pretty frightening pictures on my computer.


example link : http://www.castledownsdentalcentre.com/images/WisdomToothExtractions.jpg
btw this IS Safe for work!

I suppose it could always of been worse, an osession with dentistry is far better than my little pony

[[FnG] Unholy Eve]

Broney power activate !!!

Anyway the younger generations will easily tear through any government waffer thin protection that they want to push through to "protect the children" How can we teach the children the difference from what is and is not acceptable if we continue to wrap them up in even more cotton wool then we do now.

To me its up to the parents to protect their children from these sorts of issues like turning on the safe search and actually monitoring what their kids are getting up to online.

If you're not going to parent you're self then don't expect someone else to do it for nor get angry at the owner of the material because the child agreed to view it.

[[FnG] Lambik]

Here at teh Netherlands we've 'accepted' the net-neutrality by law, which basicly means the providers are not allowed to either block or charge different fees over different type of internet traffic.
Now there are two ISP (InternetServiceProviders) who are now trying to prevent this law, as they are 'whitelisting' traffic for their customers(religious reasons) to make sure people are not crossing lines.
There are other technical solutions for people to achieve the same thing, but then they can circumvent the whitelist a bit more easier then when the ISP is whitelisting. This group of people do not want any risk of a 'weak' moment.

Beside this religious reasons stuff, the entertainment business also would very much like to see traffic segmentation, same as the telecoms seeing their voice traffic going down, along with the SMS traffic.
So to stretch the story a bit more, the lobbies are working very hard to get teh politics to convince the public that we need to be protected from evilness(pr0n0, hacks, T-horsies, phishing, etc), and ofcourse the provider has to do all this as the crowd is with stupid. Now the catch, as we agree to filter evilness at ISP level, then we also have to agree with other types of filtering, like different cost ratios for different types of traffic, filtering fileshares, filtering newsgroups, etc, etc.

The dutch ISP's already do 'Deep-Packet-Inspection'(DPI) which basically is the same as to open every mail-letter, read it, close it, send it on and the receiver never knows it has been opened and read. Including most VPN/SSH/SSL tunnels, as they act 'as in-the-middle-person'. Because ISP are doing this, the politics now are working on a law for net-neutrality.
This DPI is in my opinion very wrong, internet should be open, and you should be able to 'trust' your ISP to a certain extend.

My opinion on GOV and filtering internet : NO !!
(If they do, then I might as well move to Iran or China)

Also for filtering the internet at home, I think it's not the way to do it, same as Eve already mentioned, teach the children how to deal with it,
they are far more capable then most parents today think.Also the same as Eve said, parents can be very over protective towards their own children(not others, they don't really care).

Instead of filtering, I would rather prefer simple monitoring / logging tools, which give an impression of activity, again not at the provider, but at home.
(similar as kids playing in the garden, you keep an eye out on what they're doing, and correct them if they're doing something dangerous, like launching a missile at the neighbor's house )

btw, do I read this the wrong way ?

Eg Gov wants to put laws that it is auto-blocked at provider unless you opt in to protect the childen.

Does this mean normaly it's always blocked, unless you want to protect the children, then you have always pr0n0 ?(that would be a weird kind )

[[FnG] Hanno]

btw, do I read this the wrong way ?

Eg Gov wants to put laws that it is auto-blocked at provider unless you opt in to protect the childen.

Does this mean normaly it's always blocked, unless you want to protect the children, then you have always pr0n0 ?(that would be a weird kind )

Yes you read it the wrong way Or I wrote it the wrong way.

OPT into Porno to protect your children from Religious Hypocrisy and faaah Dentist Porn!


ANyway I hadn't considered that their might be Money lobbying reasons behind it,
but I doubt thats the reason in the UK, as our ISPs are too incompetent to cope with a more complicated system.
And I doubt they could make extra charges for Porn bandwidth stick anyway, because their
phonelines would be clogged up with all the vicars denying they were dl'ing stuff.

[[FnG] N!MRoD]

I am quite against putting restrictions on the internet of any form.

Of course such material is a matter of concern though I believe it is part of the education/ growing up of a child, learning how to deal with such things correctly. Because eventually your son or daughter will likely be confronted with such things in their life. And I would feel better knowing that I was able to at least show them that it was bad thing and how to handle it best then just cross my fingers.

On the other side, the internet does not have to become a virtual world where you get porn ads on every site. However I very much doubt that will become the case since this can be regulated by site owners, among other things.
Still, sexual contect is easily reachable on the net. But i see the net a bit as the real world. You dont let your kids run wonder off too far in the real world without supervision, do you? I would do the same for the internet, till at least a certain age.

[[FnG] Hanno]

You see if the 3 of us agreed why can't all those unreasonable people just use common sense ....

BY the way N!mrod. Its a good job you spell your name with a ! because I have just noticed otherwise backwards it would be "Dormin"

Nim!Nim!Nim!Nim!Nim!Nim!

[[FnG] pyxie.T32]

I am completly for the governemnt blocking sites which are beyond the grey area (which is massive) this includes the usual pile of nasties such as kids or animals.

However by blocking the entire grey area which is sort of the plan as far as I can tell seems way out of line. For the sake of argument will they also close down a third of the shops in Soho (Londons Red Light District) just because some of them potentially sell dubious material, or stop shops selling any risqué magazines. No of course not. Thats because they undersand those outlets where as the internet is newer and not understood as well or policable in the same manner.

One side-effect of this is the blocking is frankly a joke. It will probably stop the average elderly MP being able to jump onto what I assume is Swedens most visited site but anyone else who wants to get there can - and if they can't there are hundreds of sites to tell them how.

The internet should be viewed in the same way an uncaring magazine salesman should, someone to whom the law holds no fear and will happily show your children filth in the hope that 1 person in 100 pays a few quid for premium access. Imorral- perhaps, business savy- certainly, illegal- questionable. what it boils down to is how much parents care. If they have a more trusting and mature approach such as Mr Hanno they will put on the safe filter as most people do as otherwise even the most mundane searches tend to come back with ahem - unexpected results. Means his daughter is as protected as any normal person and trusted to be sensible. it is inevitable that at some point something will turn up that is not what she wants to see and I'm sure due to her upbringing she will just navigate away. Perhaps Hanno will discuss it and explain that is the danger of the internet. It happens to conincide with the freedom and benefits it brings. Thats just how it is.

If you happen to come from a much stricter background and as parents you don't trust the internet - fair enough, thats an understandable approach then there are ways of blocking pretty much everything. just go to PC world and ask, they will do it for you using Net NAnny software and parental controls. No complet black listing and port blocking required.

Finally If I want to look at something; I can that is an option open to me. No ammount of Governement interference will stop me I don't think. What it comes down to is common sense. Choosing what and when and in what company.

As with most things in life it boild down to: just dont be an arse

[[FnG] N!MRoD]

You see if the 3 of us agreed why can't all those unreasonable people just use common sense ....

BY the way N!mrod. Its a good job you spell your name with a ! because I have just noticed otherwise backwards it would be "Dormin"

Nim!Nim!Nim!Nim!Nim!Nim!

I didnt even know thats actually a word. I had to use wikipedia and well http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dormin , how do you know Hanno?
Are you in to gardening, like, as in a very high level of gardening?

[[FnG] Hanno]

You see if the 3 of us agreed why can't all those unreasonable people just use common sense ....

BY the way N!mrod. Its a good job you spell your name with a ! because I have just noticed otherwise backwards it would be "Dormin"

Nim!Nim!Nim!Nim!Nim!Nim!

I didnt even know thats actually a word. I had to use wikipedia and well http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dormin , how do you know Hanno?
Are you in to gardening, like, as in a very high level of gardening?

I know many things but that wasn't one for them. Round my way it means something totally different