[FnG] 7uh wrote:Thanks very much!
The theory seems like a perfectly reasonable inference from history (science explaining things once thought divine) and human nature (the need for an explanation even in the face of the unexplainable).
Personally, I differ with the opinion that there's no God ... but, it certainly seems clear that humans are capable of understanding much that was once thought magical or supernatural. Still, a lot of scientists believe in God. As science progresses, it seems to me that the idea of divine existence has shifted from mechanism ("how else could this phenomenon happen?") to origin ("who or what STARTED the universe in the first place?"). We know that lightning is basically static electricity created by water and ice in clouds, and we can presume that future scientific knowledge will be able to explain things we don't know yet in terms of pure physical and chemical phenomena. So the question is shifted to an area that puts science on a less sound footing. Where did the matter and energy within the universe originally come from? Something doesn't come from nothing. Science may never be able to explain it. Or maybe one day it will! It's ... kind of a matter of faith.
So here's my theory. Believing that there's no God is an outgrowth of the conviction that science will ultimately be able to explain everything. This conviction requires a level of faith in science equal to that of the religious person's faith in God.
Flame away as appropriate ...
Hehe. Well personally I can accept the existence of 'God' but not as any of the organized religions make it out to be. Rather, I can accept some sort of 'force' or 'energy' so to speak that doesn't have to be conscience as we know it. Like it doesn't 'think' or.. let's say, act like it has a brain. More instinctual, simply being. An energy that drives creation, life, etc.
Not that I believe this, but I'd see it more like that. Where to me religion is very man made, and in time has mostly been employed as a effective way to gain power and control over the masses as well as fables, myth and stories written as analogies to convey meaning about how to live a morally sound life. More like an ancient lawbook.
But that's just personal opinion.
Something doesn't come from nothing.
I think this is an important part, which is what probably had me thinking about all this in the first place all those years ago. And I can better understand what I thought of back then now. I'm not sure entirely who argued this, I think it might've been Foucault or Levi-Strauss. Basically they say how language has actually shaped our understanding of the world. It changed the way we think and perceive things. Basically language has determined our 'box' and we think 'inside the box'. That's sort of what I was thinking about back then. We have come to see that something is created in some way. A table, wood, a tree, the seed, life, we all know something spurred it's creation. So you keep tracing it back further and further and like you said, you end up with the question of what created matter. But even if you find that answer, let's say it's God. Then that's still not an answer, because who created God? It would be a never ending story, one which eventually HAS to stop at the conclusion that something did in fact come from nothing. Which is hard for us to comprehend because we want to explain everything.
That's sort of what I was thinking about back then. And I thought I could give the answer to all mankind and be the savior of all knowledge and science
[FnG] Hanno wrote:I'm sure there was a flame thrower smilely here somewhere....
Actually I sort of agree with Sandrock, apart from the word blockade where I would say blockage.
The majority of people find it easier to accept a fiction about something than be able to accept a simple ' we don't know;we might never know'
and another majority of people find it very hard to say "I don't know' and are quite happy to make up something instead.
Its one of the hardest lessons I found out when I started work that its a better idea to say 'I don't know but I'll find out' rather than 'winging' it
Its odd I can handle that well now but I still haven't figured out how best to lie for other people.
I have had a week of typing emails that should of said "because XXXX are a bunch of idiots who can't find there XXXXX with both hands"
and having to make up diplomatic excuses for XXXXX instead. It is very stressful!
Yeah accepting that you don't know things and it's ok not to know things can be quite liberating. It's extended further than that for me. If something bad happens, I don't like it, but I now find solace in it. I move on and see no point in dwelling in the past, but rather think how this has changed my situation and what my remaining options are, where and how to proceed. It's sort of a 'letting go' mentality. Rather than always being the one holding the reigns.
There was this awesome chinese proverb we got in history class back when i was 14 or something. *Goes to google it* Cant find it unfortunately
Basically the jist of it was:
Two men get tied to the wheel of a cart. As it moves forward, one man does not accept his faith and fights back, getting dragged along the ground by the cart. The other man accepts his faith and walks along with the cart, not getting hurt.
Or in more modern terms: Go with the flow
And yeah having to cover for people often sucks. Being the good guy is always crap It's the same when you work on something in a team and you do most of the work but everyone gets equal credit, and then the other people start claiming their credit full heartily
Here's another thing that totally blew my mind and still find hard to comprehend, but you all probably already know it since it's not that unknown.
Time is relative is pretty well known. But I personally never stopped to think about what it really meant and what it's implications are until my friend and I started to discuss it. Turns out that time is affected by gravitational pull and speed. So if you would travel at the speed of light, time slows down for you by a lot. That means that if you were to travel somewhere several lightyears away and come back to Earth, you would've hardly aged while people on Earth that you knew might all be dead already.
It sounds so science-fiction (Planet of the Apes) and mind blowing I still find it hard to comprehend this is real and pretty much scientifically proven... fascinating.
PS. Never thought after so many years I'd be talking about this again in a serious fashion, especially since I've always considered my self an arrogant prick because of the way I talked about this back then :p