Type of Game discussion

The place to talk about any other games that the clan doesn't currently play or just the place to talk about other games in general.
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[FnG] Hanno
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Type of Game discussion

Postby [FnG] Hanno » Wed Jul 22, 2009 9:26 pm

Following on from a discussion with Desmokid.
We were comparing guildwars with wow and other level based mmo's

BUT I want to play something different that isnt dependant on grinding mobs/quests and levels.

I've been watching out for any thing new but heres a thought on a different way of looking at the mechanics
of the mmo that I put on the Frontier1859 website (a western based mmo which hasnt started developement yet)
a while ago, which is why this is focused on the western examples. Anyone else got any thoughts on the
boredom of leveling and quests?


I noticed a thread above about what people like about MMOs how about what people hate about MMOS?

What really winds me up is the level grind, which is why the old skill based method looks attractive
me, similar to the Ultima online 0 =100% skills which you could forget or learn at any time totally changing
your class.

And if your chucking out leveling you can throw out the boring quests as well. Yes some quests are funny,
some tells a story but mainly quests end up as go there, kill that, collect that. and then at the end
game you realise thats all the game was about and then give up.

I think that an event based approach would complement the skills methology much better.
Yes keep missions in when they make sense eg if you do work for the pony express or
for the local fort. or do something for tribal elders to gain fame.
But move the focus on to events that happen around you based on the area your in.
This also does away with fixed 'monster' spawn which get camped.
For instance:
Your a prospector travelling through indian country, theres an x% chance
of any of the following happening a) an indian attack b) burning wagons, follow tracks to an indian camp maybe a rescue?
c) Notice horse tracks d) Meet an indian trader on the road etc etc.
These can be tied into skills for instance if you have a high tracking skill then your more likely
to trigger an event such as noticing tracks.
Also most of these events are optional, eg you dont have to follow the tracks if you dont want, yo ucan ignore them
and get on with what you were doing.

As well as events for all different sorts of areas/terrain, other could be eg animal events easy with tracks or with killed livestock, lame horse. Weather events > eg river floods revealing a gold seem for prospecting, or landside or cabin damaged..
Crop events> blight or animals. Skill events: eg when you try to use as skill as normal something odd is revealed or happens.
Group events > similar but scaled up if you are in a group, although other normal events will automatically scale up
if some one joins your group. EG you call a friend to help you rescue someone from indians.

Events are to add colour, give rewards and give people chance to use/practice skills.
They may be a problem to overcome but they would normally give a reward as well.
The reward for exploring new areas would be the chance of new events happening,
which would encourage people to travel the wilds looking for new places instead
of doing the 'wow' thing of going from camp a > town b > camp c as a boring
predictable 'script' as played by every other wow player.

As long as you have loads of events with a huge variety you could get rid of the whole repetative quest
problem and differentiate the game from the WOW clones.

Maybe someones suggested all of this before but its one way of making a game stand out and be different.

After rereading that , I thought maybe it sounds like events were just quests with a different name.
Why events would be different?

Mostly no text and no silly quest giver :
Alhough some quests might have npc talking and helping them for a reward.
Eg perhaps a broken wagon on the road, you need to get something to help the wagoneer to fix it.
But most events would not have any npc or anyone to tell you want to do, the idea
is that your skill set would reveal a problem and give you options to solving that problem.
Eg high tracking would let you see bear tracks and allow you to follow them, reward = bear skin/meat.

Its not spelt out what you have to do > multiple ways to deal with it depending on your skill set:
for instance back to the indians hostage > you could fight it out or call in friends to fight it out
alternatively if you have a good reputation with indians/indian language skills maybe you could reason or
pay ransom to save the hostage. How you deal with the event would depend totally on your

Events can happen anywhere! Perhaps as soon as you come out of your cabin or in a bar
or in a logging camp, or in the privy. Events find you while you get on with
your normal trade/pasttimes rather than you finding quests.

Any thoughts>?
Hanno's Law:
Anyone who says they know what's going on are probably lying.
Anyone who believes they know what's going on is dangerous and should be avoided at all cost.

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[FnG] Thomean
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Location: Zwolle/Nieuwlande Netherlands

Re: Type of Game discussion

Postby [FnG] Thomean » Sun Sep 13, 2009 11:34 pm

*a bit late, but oh well :P*

It sounds like a great idea, but in my opinion there are some problems with it.

First on. It is not all that different from quests. In the end it almost always comes down to kill this, collect that, free those. The same as with all the quests. The only difference is that you do not have to talk to npc's to activate all of them. Also I do not hope this idea is to erase all npc based quests :P Cuz it's not that unrealistic to help a person in need xD

Second. You have said it yourself already. You have to think of LOTS of events to make it worthwile. Walking to a npc to accept a quest is something that is standard. So people do not get bored by it. But if you walk alongside a road, and you see tracks for the 5th time that day (just an example :P) you would get bored quiet easily. At least, I think I would. (oh no! Not that again!) And after saving a base for the 20th time you will be wanting to do something more 'epic'. And that is what standard mmo's make possible. Because everything is simple and standard they an easily give you the feeling you are becoming a hero. *Kill the ultra-super-dragon to save all the people in the world kinda quests*.

Third. In my opinion people are lazy. :bedrime: They do not want to have to search for an event. They want to quest right away and find rewards. Or grind an whole area empty to be able to get the best equipment. With inserted time, much grinding, a high level and great equipment you can brag much better.

I'm not trying to say npc quest setup, with levels, is better. Because I would like a working system as you described it. But I just do not see it work. Why do you think WoW is so populair to begin with? :P

It's a great idea but a bit too ambitious in my opinion :P A combination could work, maybe :cheerleader:


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Re: Type of Game discussion

Postby [FDG]Sundae » Sun Sep 13, 2009 11:57 pm

Hanno - I have no idea how I missed this thread, and I'm happy that Thomean bumped it. :) Let me read it and think, and I'd be quite interested in discussing this aspect of game-theory with you and anyone else who would like to participate.

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